[gridengine users] SGE (univa 8.0.1) - anyone running SGE with Centrify active directory integration?
ron_chen_123 at yahoo.com
Wed Nov 23 06:52:49 UTC 2011
1) There really are differences between Oracle Grid Engine and Univa Grid Engine. First and foremost, Oracle has never used misleading or false information just to get an extra customer to pay for Oracle Grid Engine. If you have not read all the messages in the mail thread started by Dave Love recently, then don't blame us for being rude to Univa.
And related to shunning Grid Engine users? Is there a more effective way to shun Grid Engine users and potential users than to tell them that using Grid Engine can get sued by oracle?
If you think that the end (that your client who wants to get Grid Engine support can get it from a commercial source) justifies the means (the way this company gets new customers by spreading misleading or false information), then I have nothing more to say. I personally have a higher moral standard, and I try to avoid companies that do not play fairly in their markets.
2) If you go to a Redhat RHEL mailing list and ask questions related to Oracle Enterprise Linux, guess what? People are willing to answer your RHEL or CentOS questions, but none of your Oracle Enterprise Linux questions. At least one non-Redhat guy will give you a lecture on why you are supposed to get support from Redhat, and will also tell you why Oracle Enterprise Linux is a parasite. And yes, support for Oracle Enterprise Linux is cheaper than a RHEL subscription, and yes, Oracle does have a team that develops Oracle Enterprise Linux.
With Grid Engine, Oracle's the position gets flipped with Redhat's. Oracle becomes Redhat and needs to pay for the acquisition cost of Sun Microsystems (which owns Grid Engine). Only Oracle owns the intellectual property of Grid Engine, all other versions (or implementations) of Grid Engine did not have to pay for the initial development cost or acquisition cost. And most of the community support work is done by Reuti (always the winner in terms of the number of messages or speed), Andy (who is still at Oracle), Rayson, and me. While the original SGE developers were under Sun's payroll, we have spent a great amount of time on this community, and built it from scratch when no one had heard of Grid Engine in the early 2000s.
3) Both the responses from Reuti & Rayson are valid, and not particular harsh. Keep in mind that an open core product is not supportable by the community, as explained by Michael ‘Monty’ Widenius (the MySQL founder):
* You are depending on one vendor (ie. vendor lock-in)
* You can't do any bug fixes yourself and you can't contract anyone except the original vendor to get things fixed.
I am quoting 2 most important ones, especially "you can't contract anyone except the original vendor to get things fixed". And that's only for open core software, and Univa Grid Engine is not even an open core product now, it is an closed source product. There can be fixing in Univa Grid Engine, or things that we don't know in the code. If we guess that there is a bug, and turns out to be wrong, then we are blamed as bashing Univa Grid Engine. And if we guessed right, then we can't prove that until it is confirmed by the company that owns the source.
4) Last but not least, Monty built MySQL from scratch and he is not happy with MySQL turning from an open-source application into an open-core application, but at least Sun paid him US $1B for MySQL. We helped to build the Grid Engine community from scratch and we are not happy with this "unfortunate and sad this state of affairs" status quo.
Anyway, enough ranting from me, and this email, like all other emails from others who complained about this state of affairs & things in Grid Engine, will be ignored by you and you will "not be paying much mind" again and treat them as "fireworks". And tomorrow you will be getting new Grid Engine users for this company that is the root of the problem & trouble (and you are helping this cancer grow by allowing it to hire more sales to spread FUD and damage our community), and you sleep well and don't feel anything, and both the bioteam & this company make money and are happy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Dagdigian <dag at sonsorol.org>
To: "users at gridengine.org Group" <users at gridengine.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [gridengine users] SGE (univa 8.0.1) - anyone running SGE with Centrify active directory integration?
Like many users of the Oracle branded SGE I was hopefully assuming
faster and more targeted support would be available from the smart
people who inhabit the users- list. Don't we have a history going back
(like forever?) of doing that?
Univa support is going to be my 2nd stop mainly because I'd expect it to
take longer to open, troubleshoot and resolve via a formal ticketing
system. I think my issue has more to do with PAM and NIS than any deep
I really have not been paying much mind to the fireworks on this list
recently but if the end result is that people are going to shun Oracle
and Univa customers on this mailing list then let me be the first person
to complain how unfortunate and sad this state of affairs has become.
Will we shun ScalableLogic customers next?
Let me be perfectly blunt as nominal owner of the gridengine.org domain
name - there is nobody on earth who has the authority (informal or
otherwise) to declare that this mailing list can't be used to support or
not-support any particular variant of Grid Engine. We've never given
anyone that authority, nor should we.
I don't want to start an entirely new complaint-fest so let me withdraw
my question. I'll go straight to Univa on this one.
Bill Bryce wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> I think the best way is to log this as an issue at Univa and we can go from there. Is this cluster for your personal use or are you configuring it on behalf of a customer? You can send an email to support at univa.com or login to the support portal http://www.univa.com/support and we can help.
> On 2011-11-22, at 3:32 PM, Reuti wrote:
>> Hi Chris,
>> Am 22.11.2011 um 21:05 schrieb Chris Dagdigian:
>>> I'm hands-on with a shiny new cluster running Univa's 8.0.1 release and am having some issues running jobs as a non-root user via an account that lives in Active Directory.
>> isn't Univa offering "Full, Enterprise Class Support"? I thought this is one of the advantages over the community support for the open source version. So I would assume they have their own forum/list like Oracle does for their version:
>> -- Reuti
>>> The cluster is the standard sort of RHEL 5.7 based system but we are using Centrify and in particular the Centrify NIS-gateway-to-ActiveDirectory to service the cluster nodes without having to license centrify on all nodes in the cluster.
>>> The user errors I see are familiar ones:
>>> "can't get password entry for user "x". Either user does not exist or NIS error!"
>>> The confusing thing is that I can SSH into compute nodes as the same user and both password logins and passwordless SSH work perfectly. It's only when running under SGE that the jobs fail.
>>> If I had to guess I'd wonder first if SSHD was using Linux /etc/pam.d/ in a way that "works" while SGE is accessing PAM in some way that we have not configured properly yet. That's only a guess though.
>>> Does anyone have examples of SGE running via NIS authentication or via Centrify? Any examples of PAM configuration that were needed to get NIS users recognized under SGE?
>>> users mailing list
>>> users at gridengine.org
>> users mailing list
>> users at gridengine.org
> William Bryce | VP of Products
> Univa Corporation - 1001 Warrenville Road, Suite 100 Lisle, Il, 65032 USA
> Email bbryce at univa.com | Mobile: 512.751.8014 | Office: 416.519.2934
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